| Poster |
Message |
 jyrki
|
 nitrous
He had a shorter gear ratio than I, and had as much speed even though he free rolled the last 50 meters or so, so I think his rpm must have been maybe closer to 8000 than 7000? The guy really doesn't care a shit and thought exploding it was just funny. With a stock rod with a piston+pin weighing over 1100 grams no even partially sensible person would wind the engine that high even without nitrous. By the way, he built a new short block with Eagle rods and lighter ROSS pistons and has run it succesfully several times so far =) He runs in Super Street class with a 10.9 index, but has already run high 8's at full steam =) |
| 05.12.2002 at 22:56 |
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partel
  |
nitrous
Enough time to eat a hamburger while on the throttle-stop!  |
| 05.12.2002 at 23:49 |
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forced2race
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nitrous
Throttle-stop ?? Could the torque wizard Partel enlighten me , please ?
____________________________
Save The Wave (vette 91 ) |
| 06.12.2002 at 11:14 |
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jyrki
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nitrous
Throttle stop is a device installed between the carb and intake and is used in "super" classes. It's a plate that has an extra set of throttles that are operated either electronically or pneumatically.
In a typical Super class (Super Street, Super Gas, Super Comp) car, the driver basically just stages the car, locks the trans brake and press the gas to the floor. When he sees yellow he releases the trans brake, good reaction times are achieved with a delay box. You always try to react to the yellow the same way, and the needed delay in releasing the trans brake for a good reaction time is adjusted from the delay box.
Then if your car is quicker than the index, in this case 10.9 seconds, you still just stand on the gas pedal. The throttle stop used by an adjustable computer uses the throttle blades in the throttle stop. There are many different variations in adjusting the way the throttle stop works, the most common is that you leave at full throttle, then after a moment the throttles close and stay closed for a certain time and then open again.
The other is that you leave at full throttle and run like that for a certain time and then close the throttles and just roll the rest of the trip. You try to adjust the throttle stop so, that the car runs as close to the index as possible. Two examples from the 9.9 second super gas class, Harri Forsten with his roadster just gets the car moving until the throttle closes, then it just rolls the throttles closed for about 4 seconds, then the throttles open again, an rpm activated solenoid shifts to second (yes, even the shifts are usually done automatically in those cars) and he reaches the goal in 9.90 seconds at 262 km/h. And when he runs against Mårten Tiainen who runs the first part at full throttle and then rolls to the finish at 9.90 seconds at 170 km/h, it may look a little weird.
With all this electronics there is not so much left for the driver, basically all he has to do is to leave consistently and drive straight and the electronic takes care of most of the rest. Adjusting these different boxes is a science of it's own, adjustments are needed because of weather and track condition changes all the time to keep the car running consistently. Therefore most of the cars in those classes are also capable fo running way quicker than their class index, so that there is room for these adjustments and the car can run the index even in very bad conditions.
Not all the drivers in these classes use these devices, but most of them do use at least some of it. For example Aulis Hämeenkorpi has not got a single electronic device in his Super Comp (8.9) nostalgia altered and yet he won the biggest race in europe last summer against about 60 throttle/delay/shiftsolenoid equipped cars. That is something that shouldn't be possible, but it was. |
| 06.12.2002 at 11:40 |
|
Vanaisa
Moderator |
nitrous
... Harri Forsten with his roadster just gets the car moving until the throttle closes, then it just rolls the throttles closed for about 4 seconds, then the throttles open again, an rpm activated solenoid shifts to second (yes, even the shifts are usually done automatically in those cars) and he reaches the goal in 9.90 seconds at 262 km/h....
As i understand, this minimize tire slipping too in start?
But why 4 seconds? Why not 2 or 3? (just curious)
____________________________
KÕIK KASTIRATASTELE, SELTSIMEHED!!!
:evil |
| 06.12.2002 at 11:52 |
|
jyrki
|
nitrous
It's because his car is pretty light and he's got over 1000 hp in it; only two or three seconds on the throttle stop and it would run8's instead of 9.9's. His car is propably the quickest Super Gasser, and his adjustments are propably the most radical to this direction. He barely gets the car moving before adding the throttles, while others usually run at least 60 ft before the throttles come on. His philosophy is that he always come from the behind in the finish line at at least 30 km/h more speed than the others, so it is very difficult for the opponents to estimate wether they will be ahead of him right in the finish line. Tiainen tries to get the finish line advantage the other way round. In USA some of the 8.9 second Super Comp dragster have top speeds of well over 300 km/h; should they drive at full steam all the way they would run 6's. |
| 06.12.2002 at 13:36 |
|
forced2race
|
nitrous
So as I understand this : the main idea in those "competitions" is to hit the index .
And basically that is achieved by programming
comps and the challenge is basically whether
conditions ?
And, ofcourse, keepin' "car " straight
Are those races on the glued strips ? Don't kill me if it's
a dumb question
I just wonder is it possible to run 6s on a regular apron ?
____________________________
Save The Wave (vette 91 ) |
| 06.12.2002 at 15:09 |
|
partel
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nitrous
Throttle stop on juhitavad siibrid karpa all, sama tööpõhimõte kui karpasiibritel. Idee selles, et muuta auto nii palju aeglasemaks kui vaja, et sõidaks täpselt vastava superklassi (Super Comp 8.9 Super Gas 9.9 Super Street 10.9 sek) indeksi või tiba alla.
Kuna pea kõik Super klassi autod on oluliselt kiiremad kui vastava klassi indeks, siis on tarvitusel
Kaks põhilist meetodit:
1. Aktiveeritakse hetk pärast starti - auto lendab esirattad õhus kohalt, siis throttle stop keerab kraani kinni, auto kukub ninali, veereb vaikselt, juht sööb hamburgerit, seejärel tohrottle-stop deaktiveerub, ning täiega finishisse.
2. Enne finishit - eelnevalt kindlaksmääratud ajal killib mootori ja auto veereb vbalt finishisse.
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| 06.12.2002 at 23:36 |
|
Lembit
|
nitrous
quote:
jyrki: ....so I think his rpm must have been maybe closer to 8000 than 7000? .... With a stock rod with a piston+pin weighing over 1100 grams ....
My personal opinion is, especially looking at the rod on right and having the information about weight, it was just the rpm, what killed this engine.
I would suggest piston + pin + rings + rod + bearings definetly less than 1000 g to reliably run 8000 rpm. |
| 06.12.2002 at 01:50 |
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jyrki
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nitrous
Hey, that was the piston ALONE weighing 1100 grams with the pin! The rod, rings and bearings add pretty close to 1000 grams in to that. Mopar engines have one of the heaviest internal parts in the industry. 1100 grams is typical for a stock 440 piston + pin, but good aftermarket parts are considerably lighter. For example Jussis piston+ pin weight is 620 grams and mine with a longer compression height and a 4.5" bore weigh 780 grams. both of them are dished, flat tops would be even lighter. |
| 07.12.2002 at 14:42 |
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partel
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nitrous
Hey Jyrki, about Jussis engine, any dyno results or hp estimates? I remember that there were something not quite right with the motor?
At least it smoked my ass at Raadi! |
| 07.12.2002 at 18:00 |
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jyrki
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nitrous
No dyno numbers. As you propably know, we just hit the engine together in one day because of the tight schedule. Therefore a lot of things that would have needed attention were not done. It really never performed the way it should have, and have many kind of small problems with the valvetrain and what seemed like ignition etc. We tore it apart last week, and found the reason; all the intake valves ahd hit the sides of the valve reliefs. The reliefs were propably mislocated. I just ordered some new parts for it last week and if everything goes well we should have the engine ready for dyno in the late January. And I believe this time with the new heads, shorter & bigger headers, new cam, intake, carb and so on it should make some power.
Also ordered new heads and some other parts for Timos Dart, he should get it ready for next summer too.
I have yet another mopar BB under work + my own; it seems like the summer is here before I have time to concentrate on the "löijy". Had some talk with Seppo that we might pay a visit in Tallinn perhaps next week. Maybe we'll see there. |
| 09.12.2002 at 14:53 |
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